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  • Round Footage

    Since perjuries is experiencing a renaissance I thought I'd join the bandwagon.

    I noticed there was a lot of interest about improving the activity. Aside from more judges in ORCS I don't have any problems with the activity itself. Rather, it's something surrounding the activity that bothers me. The controlled and scarce video footage that limits the information available, and as a result makes the activity worse.

    The value of footage is immense, that's something that is self-evident. Strategies, phrases, styles, witness portrayals, case presentation- all of these things can be learned by watching footage. I've heard from a lot of players starting new programs that they teach from footage, showing new players how rounds should be played. However, the only video footage that is readily accessible is from national finals and behind a pay-wall. Even worse, since 2014 and the advent of the nationals case, the footage available comes from a case that most teams in AMTA do not get to play. So if you wanted to see what a top level Duran v. Park, Winter v. TBD, or a State v. Hendricks round looks like and learn from it, good luck.

    I get the idea of not releasing footage while the case is in circulation, those are state secrets. But after the case is gone, especially after years have gone by, it's not a big deal. The point of the activity isn't only to win, it's to teach and spread awareness of the American legal system and as a result train more civic minded people and attorneys who will go on to improve the profession as a whole. The tight grip on footage is a bit elitist, and it creates a self-perpetuating system where teams who were fortunate enough to figure the activity out cling to information, resulting in the circuit and level of play being worse as a whole. On a personal note, I am peeved that there are so many great players and great teams that I have never seen. I don't know what made those teams work, or what made those players good. Teams should be less stingy with their footage.

  • #2
    Im torn over this. I agree that, in general, having more film available elevates the overall level of mockers everywhere. And of course I think AMTA would be better and more fun if everyone was better. The problem is that because film is so helpful, teams have every reason not to share. Why give other teams the benefits of your footage? I think the best solution would honestly be some sort of reciprocal film sharing where teams both give and receive videos.

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    • #3
      I think you will find that one of the difficulties with sharing film outside of the teams competing in the rounds is that AMTA rule 4.28 says that "A school may videotape or record any trial in which the school is competing, so long as the recording does not interfere with the conduct of the trial. The use of any such recording is limited to the educational use of the school making the recording." It also specifically says in the comments that sharing or taking film for scouting purposes is prohibited. This seems to suggest that sharing it with teams not involved with the round would be a violation of AMTA rules. I doubt these rules are heavily enforced (particularly because it would require the team you were competing against to find out and complain), but, still nobody wants to run afoul of the rules.

      Whether AMTA should change the rules is an entirely different question, but I think this is part of why many teams don't share (that and the fact that holding on to your own film library is a big advantage if you are a team with a film library).

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      • #4
        AMTA has a YouTube account with the 2003 and 2006 final rounds posted for all to see: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8h...oDI44GtJfm_5OA
        Mock Trial with J. Reinhold! Mock Trial! Mock Trial with J. Reinhold!

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        • #5
          I have a pretty large library of footage that I am willing to share.

          I am looking particularly to exchange for recent footage of Yale, Virginia, NYU, Ohio State, Rhodes, or UCLA.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mockiavelli View Post
            I have a pretty large library of footage that I am willing to share.

            I am looking particularly to exchange for recent footage of Yale, Virginia, NYU, Ohio State, Rhodes, or UCLA.
            fyi, that might be against the rules (see 4.28 here)

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            • #7
              I would hope AMTA intends that rule to mean "no commercial sharing of footage" - not as a blanket ban against people learning from each other's footage.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mockiavelli View Post
                I would hope AMTA intends that rule to mean "no commercial sharing of footage" - not as a blanket ban against people learning from each other's footage.
                i think it's okay to learn from old tape, sure. but looking for "recent footage" seems to step into a gray area of using tape for scouting, which i don't think falls within "educational use of the school making the recording"

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by DrunkLikeDawson View Post

                  i think it's okay to learn from old tape, sure. but looking for "recent footage" seems to step into a gray area of using tape for scouting, which i don't think falls within "educational use of the school making the recording"
                  My concern is with the idea of "exchanging" footage. That sounds a lot like commercial sharing of footage to me. There's a difference between freely sharing round footage and trading rounds quid-pro-quo.

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                  • #10
                    Understandable - let me clarify, then, that I am not competing at ORCS against any of those teams. Just looking for top-level footage. I know that people are hesitant to share freely, so I am willing to share in exchange.

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                    • #11
                      Mockiavelli I won't share any recent footage, but on top of the freely available footage The Gelf mentioned, there is also video of a NYU/Yale round from a few years ago on YouTube.

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                      • #12
                        Also, while there is a monetary obstacle, you can purchase the final round on AMTA's website, that is Yale v. UVA for the last two years. If it is just for learning from the best, that is the best way.

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                        • #13
                          For anybody that hasn't seen it, an NYU v. Yale ORCS round from 2 years ago is available on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkjV...L8UtDuLLpBXuhp

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                          • #14
                            I doubt people would be willing to release footage of this case, considering it is ORCS. We are just talking about old videos, and of course, nothing AMTA. Not looking to get sanctioned.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shefram
                              Miami Mock Trial has this SUPER helpful resource! All old cases, but tried by fantastic teams.
                              Not anymore
                              My rants and ramblings are my own and should not be attached to others.

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