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  • Originally posted by 7Redacted View Post
    Super Persuasive on both counts :/
    They are obviously not going to give specific details. But I will second that is has happened.

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    • Originally posted by clustermock View Post
      I have personal knowledge of a team who was sanctioned by AMTA, appealed the decision, and was then given as less severe sanction as a result of the appeal.
      and I am willing to bet they are not a student run program and the coach had a good relationship with AMTA EC ... or part of the EC>
      Better to be hated by a few than loved by all.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by grady670 View Post
        You are misunderstanding someone who was just trying to help. You may absolutely represent yourself however you would like, and that includes flexing your first ammendment muscles. But on this forum, especially because you are "anonymous", you are not representing yourself as an individual, you are representing a university, a program, other students.

        In your previous post you mentioned that on your team, no one will talk to AMTA reps except a designated representative, and that's because you don't want one random person speaking on behalf of the entire program and possibly misrepresenting the program. You also don't want AMTA or anyone else to look down upon the program as a whole because one kid said something stupid.

        Take your own policy to heart on this forum.
        Actually, I am posting on behalf of myself and not my team. I have not revealed my university nor have I outed any fellow team members that lurk or post here. As for why my team imposed the " no talk to AMTA or the police" rule is to prevent any "conflicting stories" from being used against us if we ever run afoul of an AMTA rule. I would urge other teams to adopt a simular rule --- AMTA can and will use anything you say against you.
        Better to be hated by a few than loved by all.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by objection_conception View Post
          Actually, I am posting on behalf of myself and not my team. I have not revealed my university nor have I outed any fellow team members that lurk or post here. As for why my team imposed the " no talk to AMTA or the police" rule is to prevent any "conflicting stories" from being used against us if we ever run afoul of an AMTA rule. I would urge other teams to adopt a simular rule --- AMTA can and will use anything you say against you.
          Because you remain anonymous, when you speak on an issue explicitly involving certain people or programs, it appears as though you are speaking on their behalf. I do not know your university affiliation, nor do I care, but you have taken a clear side with this issue. When you find yourself on one side of the argument advocating with the rest of the PSU team, you appear to have some kind of connection with them.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by objection_conception View Post
            and I am willing to bet they are not a student run program and the coach had a good relationship with AMTA EC ... or part of the EC>
            Given that it was the EC that issued whatever sanction was appealed and reduced by the entire board (see Rules 9.5 and 9.6), I find this unlikely (or, at least, not relevant).
            Mock Trial with J. Reinhold! Mock Trial! Mock Trial with J. Reinhold!

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            • Originally posted by objection_conception View Post
              Originally posted by clustermock
              I have personal knowledge of a team who was sanctioned by AMTA, appealed the decision, and was then given as less severe sanction as a result of the appeal.
              and I am willing to bet they are not a student run program and the coach had a good relationship with AMTA EC ... or part of the EC>
              How much?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by objection_conception View Post
                and I am willing to bet they are not a student run program and the coach had a good relationship with AMTA EC ... or part of the EC>
                I will take that bet...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by objection_conception View Post
                  Thanks to this incident our team now has a new policy in place - no one except our official team representive will talk to the police or AMTA as neither will have our best interest at heart when questing commences.
                  This is ridiculous. You do realize that if your team captains (regardless of whether or not they're your "official" team representative) refuse to talk to the reps during the tournament that the reps can impose tournament penalties which can include disqualifying the offending team(s) from the tournament, right?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by The J View Post
                    This is ridiculous. You do realize that if your team captains (regardless of whether or not they're your "official" team representative) refuse to talk to the reps during the tournament that the reps can impose tournament penalties which can include disqualifying the offending team(s) from the tournament, right?
                    We will give a response. It will be I am not sure but let us get xxxxx as I am certain they will know.
                    Better to be hated by a few than loved by all.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by grady670 View Post
                      Because you remain anonymous, when you speak on an issue explicitly involving certain people or programs, it appears as though you are speaking on their behalf. I do not know your university affiliation, nor do I care, but you have taken a clear side with this issue. When you find yourself on one side of the argument advocating with the rest of the PSU team, you appear to have some kind of connection with them.
                      Ahh, I see. Nobody could possibly think what happened to PSU was wrong, or that AMTA's actions were wrong. No, No. It has to be that everyone who is upset is either in PSU or has "some kind of connection with them".

                      Originally posted by The Gelf
                      Given that it was the EC that issued whatever sanction was appealed and reduced by the entire board (see Rules 9.5 and 9.6), I find this unlikely (or, at least, not relevant).
                      Yeah, I couldn't see how having someone directly affiliated with your team being on that board and being able to speak to members on that board could possibly have any impact on how that board rules or votes. Especially if the board is ruling on how they would subjectively characterize a team's behavior. Or if some fraction of the board already disagreed with what happened. Oh wait...

                      Originally posted by The J
                      This is ridiculous. You do realize that if your team captains (regardless of whether or not they're your "official" team representative) refuse to talk to the reps during the tournament that the reps can impose tournament penalties which can include disqualifying the offending team(s) from the tournament, right?
                      This is far from ridiculous. If you have coaches, you should most definitely have them deal with AMTA reps. If you don't, then you should most definitely make sure AMTA is only talking to one person instead of trying to bully several members of your team into giving conflicting stories.

                      There is just NO WAY that you will better represent yourself to AMTA by not informing all of your team members to direct AMTA representatives to 1 person. Their behavior this year proves that.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 7Redacted
                        There is just NO WAY that you will better represent yourself to AMTA by not informing all of your team members to direct AMTA representatives to 1 person. Their behavior this year proves that.
                        More accurately, a program should make sure all its team are informed of reasons/rationale for breaking or bending an AMTA rule. At the very least, tell all the team captains.
                        Last edited by Nur Rauch; March 11th, 2012, 10:21 AM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by 7Redacted View Post
                          This is far from ridiculous. If you have coaches, you should most definitely have them deal with AMTA reps. If you don't, then you should most definitely make sure AMTA is only talking to one person instead of trying to bully several members of your team into giving conflicting stories.

                          There is just NO WAY that you will better represent yourself to AMTA by not informing all of your team members to direct AMTA representatives to 1 person. Their behavior this year proves that.
                          A lot of the things an AMTA rep would want to talk to you about during a tournament relate to what your specific team is doing in a tournament/round. If you are asked "why were you late to captains' meeting?" or "were you using your cell phone during the round?" are you really going to say "go ask my coach/president"?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Nur Rauch View Post
                            More accurately, a program should make sure all its team are informed of reasons/rationale for breaking or bending an AMTA rule. At the very least, tell all the team captains.
                            Because absolutely NONE of AMTA's rules are written ambiguously.

                            Originally posted by The J View Post
                            A lot of the things an AMTA rep would want to talk to you about during a tournament relate to what your specific team is doing in a tournament/round. If you are asked "why were you late to captains' meeting?" or "were you using your cell phone during the round?" are you really going to say "go ask my coach/president"?
                            I mean, at that point it obviously depends. If the question is about cell-phones and they're being rude or seem to be planning to pull a PSU and start questioning random people off the team, I would certainly still direct them to whoever your 1 person is.

                            The important thing here is that if anything is even slightly ambiguous the LAST thing you want to do is have multiple conversations with AMTA. You simply can't trust them to handle these sorts of situations like adults -- this incident proves that. You have to do your best to make sure your program is aware of this, and to make sure everyone is directing AMTA to the same place. AMTA Representatives won't be bothered to make a two minute phone call on their own, so you have to try and direct them to do so.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by The J View Post
                              A lot of the things an AMTA rep would want to talk to you about during a tournament relate to what your specific team is doing in a tournament/round. If you are asked "why were you late to captains' meeting?" or "were you using your cell phone during the round?" are you really going to say "go ask my coach/president"?
                              Let me ask you this question... Do you think it would be fair for an AMTA rep to approach a B team and ask why the A team is late or why the A team used a cell phone during their round? And if ordered to answer and they give a differnt answer than the A team because they are not fully informed, do you think it is right it can be used against them ?
                              Last edited by objection_conception; March 11th, 2012, 09:53 PM.
                              Better to be hated by a few than loved by all.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by objection_conception View Post
                                Let me ask you this question... Do you think it would be fair for an AMTA rep to approach a B team and ask why the A team is late or why the A team used a cell phone during their round? And if ordered to answer and they give a differnt answer than the A team because they are not fully informed, do you think it is right it can be used against them ?
                                If both teams were late, I would think it was fair to ask the captains of each team individually why they were late, and to penalize them if their answers contradicted each other in a way that they could not both be true.

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